RCB Gold 2013 v4

 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


Grup: Standart Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 19/04/2012
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Düzenlendi16/05/2013 - 00:45 tarafından _Ox_Weapon_xO_
I'm really, really going to do my best to cut down the freezing again along with some other things based on player feedback. Please show your support if you're able to since I've put a lot of time editing this thing over the last couple years

I'll be updating this soon but with the amount of feedback and amount of work needed it's probably not going to be until mid-June till it's ready for testing.

Big changes based on this thread:
  • Undead bombard will have timer reduced to 90 seconds. They will be disabled for team and 1v1 games.
  • No more archer auto spawn: You'll be able to select from paladins, archers (9), respawning khan, or frankish just like in 2011 at the beginning.
  • Fireship will be removed (I decided this before the discussion though)
  • There's been an intermittent issue with the bottom store and people losing kings. Instead of messing with it I'm just going to redo the whole thing. Here's what it looks like atm: [You must login to view link]

1v1/team changes:
  • undead bombard disabled. Towers will be "alive" instantly for some good ol' killin'.
  • paladins will have normal hp for said killin'

Auto-balance will still exist... I don't want the current new players to stop playing the map. This is a compromise. It takes more skill in the beginning and then you can get a lead on the people next to you and they have a chance to catch up. Autobalance is also a good thing with no genitour.


Things I'm probably doing for sure:
  • Combining 2011 v2 and 2013 unit creation mechanisms. In other words I'm taking the anti-blocking aspects out of the current triggers and replacing them with a mech similar if not identical to 2011 v2. This should lessen the freezing. Currently I just think there's too many effects triggering via incorporating the anti-blocking in there with creation. Bottom store will have taskers always on. Everything else will not and will have taskers incorporated and will just have the anti-blocking aspects removed. Except the super and top stores will have anti-blocking incorporated.
  • Tamerlane will no longer have the large power-up area; instead it'll have the same area as 2011 v2/mid. It'll still be at 9 kings but it'll have a power-up every 6 secs (down from 7) and will still have a spawn rate of every 4 secs.
  • Make the transport 6 kings and it'll be able to hold 10 units.
  • Fireship will be removed and instead it'll be replaced by a buy... probably for 6 kings to remove all palisade walls and gates in a player's base from the back part of the pyramid and back. Currently it plays a sound then 15 secs later the walls/gates are removed.
  • Program lockable spawn units. Once you buy a unit and it's in the spawn location a wall(s) can created to prevent you from dragging it off the spawn. This wall will be created/removed via you moving a king to the left/right
  • Get rid of bonus pyramid hp
  • add the villager as a super store buy for 3 kings. Available after you go imperial (persians can't buy). They'll still need to build a tc for more villagers so 3 kings will be fine unless more people comment that they want it at 4. It'll also be delayed to 15 minutes. It's only intended for later in the game when people need to wall against beli/william/wallace.
  • Make auto-balance better (make it 1 razes, 25 kills, and 1 king)
  • Get rid of stronger khan, paladins, frankish
  • Fix view exploit by only allowing wall to be built in certain places (have it detect watch towers)
  • add period in front of number for kill notifications (to prevent taunts being played when it says kill amount)
  • put side path from base back to 2011 position (units are stupid too much and go the wrong way with the current location and I don't remember than happening much in 2011) and bombard back into previous position
  • Archers of the eyes back on top store for 2 kings, every 3 secs.
  • Increase monk heal rate (so monks heal units faster). Must own 2 friars (two super store buys) for it to give a bonus to healing units.
  • bottom store in V with 2013 v3 style but more spread out top prevent king loss more
  • Adjust shallow path sizes slightly
  • change it so all civs get their units via castle unit creation (archer civs will get instant detection if possible while other civs will have to create a unit at the castle)
  • Reducing mongol king # by 1
  • Goths will get auto gate creation in certain areas.
  • Adjust paladin feed triggers accordingly (for tiny island buy... you can't stop people feeding via producing them from stables)
  • Deactivate anti-delete triggers when conditions are right to prevent possible freezing
  • Remove theo and replace with wallace
  • Deactivate any looped trigger when able to prevent freezing
  • Maybe I could just do an hp delay for mid of 1 hp/2 secs to help people out.
  • ComBoT wrote:
    not really....bcuz in 2013 v3 it has a time power up, so a civ like kor/persa can take 2 nevski early and let them power up, just when they need they'll buy 60/600 ap/hp...this is the best way to use nevski which make them too powerful!

    I'll just block it off at the start so you can't buy them till 15 minutes like harald then.

    I agree if you bought them right at the start the ap is high (540 after an hour, 1080 hp). I'll decrease that ap bonus to 2 from 3 too.
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 Is_this_my_name


Grup: Standart Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 01/07/2007
Gönderiler:754
Gönderildi 16/04/2013 - 07:55
-bigger bases with haystacks by the invincible castles seems like a good idea to me, but maybe not increasing the # of palisade walls buildable. It seems to me like bases get defensively built up too much too easily all ready, which would be another reason beli/will/theo dont do as well.
-IMO giving imp BS upgrades with a hero isnt good. I'm not sure if this makes sense but it seems like it takes strategy out of it since you no longer need to buy imp/villi to upgrade. and theres also not much else to spend kings on after youve bought will or theo. maybe you could potentially shorten the timer of their powerup to make them better.
-if you add the ap/hp to the super store it should probably be a lot more expensive than in auto, this can drastically change the whole game
-for scythian scout; maybe you could make ap buyable for it or something
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 ['sT]thunderbird


Grup: Altın Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 30/11/2009
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Gönderildi 16/04/2013 - 16:04
  • dont increase the base size, adding haystack along castles is not a good idea as it will block a unit from passing inbetween the castles(helps a lot in boating someone)
  • kors should only get those extra stones in 5 player matches or maybe not at all..they are already a very powerful civ
  • removing mongols king by 1 is debateable..maybe take away one king if they buy a vil before autobalance kicks in and probably do the same for china too if you do it for mongols
  • if you do include vil in superstore make it for 4 kings, which means with a total of 8 vils you get the advantages of both fast imp and a vil.
  • archers of eyes is gonna change the way civs like aztecs and viks are played and even franks(pals and archers of eyes would be a deadly combination).
  • also you were gonna implement something that will limit the no. of walls built within the base. you can probably do something like limit the number of walls that can be built within the base to 10-15(excluding the ones around your base and pyramid.
  • totally agree with isthismyname regarding giving imp upgrades to heros...they should only get those imp upgrades if the player has already reasearched imp and has forgot to research those updates but thats not doable i guess
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


Grup: Standart Üyelik
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Gönderildi 16/04/2013 - 16:32
It would be along the shoreline so there'd still be the same area as now for units to pass by. At least there anyways. But really what's the point then since the potential for units to get stuck there would be the same more or less.

I'll respond to the rest later since I'm on my phone. I'll probably just make a separate map with the auto upgrades and then it'd make sense to have stronger beli/William/theo since the base units have the potential to be stronger.
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 ComBoT


Grup: Standart Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 21/02/2013
Gönderiler:161
Gönderildi 16/04/2013 - 22:03
uhm..
  • Can you plz explain how the Full Pop will work? Is it designed for heroes or just for castle's units??
  • Koreans are strong as they are now. They don't need any bonus.
  • Why i can buy just 1 ship?? What if i have 2 haralds and i have to kill two players or i'm dead?? Actually 4 kings for ship seems quite good since not much players buy it, every1 prefer to buy heroes/mid/harald. So there's no abuses at all, so why do you want to limit it??
  • Program lockable spawn units?? Why;? i don't get why you have to increase the stuff(triggers) on this map, since there are too much. So if i didn't understand wrong--->less triggers=better map/decrease of crash and freeze.
  • Bonus to p2 p5 etc....Why ?? you will ruin the balance of the game, if you do this, every1 will want to join as those spots so people who host this map will decerease and if they keep doing it they will have a hard time since every1 will ask to join as red or teal...
  • A villager in super store for 3 kings? Do you realize that if you make this from now on every1 or mostly will just take it since it save kings...This will drastically change the map!!!
  • Bonus king for players who get the oppo next to him "chickened out" in first 10 mins. Why? This will create a lots of complain for PT!! Plus i don't really find this really usefull since if you have a strong civ against you if this happens you'll be just happy!!! The opposite situation, if you have a roxxor civ? your enemy will just run from you...
  • Message for when some1 buy harald or kahn??? why? that's tactic/skill/luck if no1 notice you buying them...Plus the advice is supposely when something happens that concern every1...for example Mid power is adviced bcuz the mid hill is a "property"of every1....global also bcuz it hardly happens and it's GG at 95% of times....
  • Decrease house notification?? Who cares???
  • Quote:
    change it so all civs get their units via castle unit creation (archer civs will get instant detection if possible while other civs will have to create a unit at the castle)
    I don't get this....Exaplain plz.
  • Power up in base after some1 buy khan/mid/harald....this will just ruin the map...if i have harald ofc i don't care if they stay in base or not.....but if i have khan??? Every1 will just camp and khan will sux....mid also no1 will take it since if before there was a risk to get all vs you, but from now on it will be pretty easy to counter ( In my opinion).
  • Nevski is strong as it is....and the Scythan scout is ok as it is....if make a power up for it buyable like nevski or time power up...it will get too much strong....17k hp with ap/hp power up??? No1 will take nevski.....
    As i said to you in the v3 thread, i don't really get from who you got those ideas / suggestions....Plz answer to my questios cuz i really want to figure out...
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 ComBoT


Grup: Standart Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 21/02/2013
Gönderiler:161
Gönderildi 16/04/2013 - 22:10
More space in base...plz no....is ok as it is!!!
The only suggest that i think will be good is on super store something like 8 kings for spies!! Pre-store like 2011 so you can buy 10 archers of eyes / paladins /khans or the frankish....with this ofc there will be no more 10 free archers at the start...
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


Grup: Standart Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 19/04/2012
Gönderiler:607
Düzenlendi17/04/2013 - 01:30 tarafından _Ox_Weapon_xO_
  • dont increase the base size, adding haystack along castles is not a good idea as it will block a unit from passing inbetween the castles(helps a lot in boating someone)
  • kors should only get those extra stones in 5 player matches or maybe not at all..they are already a very powerful civ
  • removing mongols king by 1 is debateable..maybe take away one king if they buy a vil before autobalance kicks in and probably do the same for china too if you do it for mongols
  • if you do include vil in superstore make it for 4 kings, which means with a total of 8 vils you get the advantages of both fast imp and a vil.
  • archers of eyes is gonna change the way civs like aztecs and viks are played and even franks(pals and archers of eyes would be a deadly combination).
  • also you were gonna implement something that will limit the no. of walls built within the base. you can probably do something like limit the number of walls that can be built within the base to 10-15(excluding the ones around your base and pyramid.
  • totally agree with isthismyname regarding giving imp upgrades to heros...they should only get those imp upgrades if the player has already reasearched imp and has forgot to research those updates but thats not doable i guess

Responding to the rest...
  • I agree with the koreans bit and with the more stark autobalance they should be fine. Mongols should be fine because of that too. Mongols are very hard to kill because of their castles.
  • Three kings seems steep for the villager atm on the super store. I will go to four if more people suggest it though.
  • I know myself and other people really liked the archers of the eyes. They're especially good for teuts and chinese and sometimes you get screwed with those civs so I feel like they should be there as a viable way to fight back. I'll try to have a slowish (probably the same as charlemagne spawn rate with them this time instead of the super quick every 2 secs, I believe, from 2012 f2.
  • I can't just limit the number of walls that way because it takes about that many to build around the pyramid which I still want people to be able to do. Then I'd have to set up detection into quadrants and have it make flags based on the number of palisade there... much simpler just to restrict them in general. I will make it so the normal spots you can still build them (e.g. between two gates they will be allowed if you're just increasing the number of gates in front/side of base.
  • I responded to the last one guarding imp heroes above... probably not going to do it in gold. If I do it'll be in an auto type version.
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


Grup: Standart Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 19/04/2012
Gönderiler:607
Düzenlendi17/04/2013 - 01:40 tarafından _Ox_Weapon_xO_
ComBoT wrote:
uhm..
  • Can you plz explain how the Full Pop will work? Is it designed for heroes or just for castle's units??
  • Koreans are strong as they are now. They don't need any bonus.
  • Why i can buy just 1 ship?? What if i have 2 haralds and i have to kill two players or i'm dead?? Actually 4 kings for ship seems quite good since not much players buy it, every1 prefer to buy heroes/mid/harald. So there's no abuses at all, so why do you want to limit it??
  • Program lockable spawn units?? Why;? i don't get why you have to increase the stuff(triggers) on this map, since there are too much. So if i didn't understand wrong--->less triggers=better map/decrease of crash and freeze.
  • Bonus to p2 p5 etc....Why ?? you will ruin the balance of the game, if you do this, every1 will want to join as those spots so people who host this map will decerease and if they keep doing it they will have a hard time since every1 will ask to join as red or teal...
  • A villager in super store for 3 kings? Do you realize that if you make this from now on every1 or mostly will just take it since it save kings...This will drastically change the map!!!
  • Bonus king for players who get the oppo next to him "chickened out" in first 10 mins. Why? This will create a lots of complain for PT!! Plus i don't really find this really usefull since if you have a strong civ against you if this happens you'll be just happy!!! The opposite situation, if you have a roxxor civ? your enemy will just run from you...
  • Message for when some1 buy harald or kahn??? why? that's tactic/skill/luck if no1 notice you buying them...Plus the advice is supposely when something happens that concern every1...for example Mid power is adviced bcuz the mid hill is a "property"of every1....global also bcuz it hardly happens and it's GG at 95% of times....
  • Decrease house notification?? Who cares???
  • I don't get this....Exaplain plz.
  • Power up in base after some1 buy khan/mid/harald....this will just ruin the map...if i have harald ofc i don't care if they stay in base or not.....but if i have khan??? Every1 will just camp and khan will sux....mid also no1 will take it since if before there was a risk to get all vs you, but from now on it will be pretty easy to counter ( In my opinion).
  • Nevski is strong as it is....and the Scythan scout is ok as it is....if make a power up for it buyable like nevski or time power up...it will get too much strong....17k hp with ap/hp power up??? No1 will take nevski.....
    As i said to you in the v3 thread, i don't really get from who you got those ideas / suggestions....Plz answer to my questios cuz i really want to figure out...
  • Full pop will just give you the ability to instantly create 200 units from buildings and not anything to do with heroes. This may be appealing when you need to create monks and you have near 200 pop and villager.
  • Yeah decided against korean bonus
  • With more than one ship people can potentially land 20 units at the back of your base which is a little much. This is the reason for the limit.
  • Too often people drag spawn units off the spawn. This is just a bonus of something I can do with just 8 triggers that'd be a benefit for everyone so I'm going to do it.
  • bonus for those players because they get the shaft in those situations. p2's towers/p5's in that one situation are just the easiest to shoot at. Most of the time the pwnage of your towers in mid is too much for you to do anything. People will still host. P1 still has the advantage of no one next to time to garrison units straight away.
  • You can only buy the villager in the super store if you're already imperial. You can't buy it otherwise. Sure you could buy imperial down below and then the villager on the super store but in order to do so you'd have to pay a 2 king penalty for that instant imperial. I'll probably make it 4 kings so that goes to a three king penalty overall. A way to buy a villager after your imperial needs to be in the map because some civs you always go imperial straight in the beginning and it's a huge inconvenience if someone is beli/william/whatever later in the map and you can't wall.
  • I'll think about the bonus king.
  • I'm not adding the auto buys in this map. If I do at a different time it'll be a map called auto gold.
  • Thanks for the other feedback. I'll take it into consideration. Many people have given me suggestions (e.g. Scout still sucks) but the majority are just random thoughts I've had.
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 [hitz]haiden


Grup: Standart Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 24/12/2011
Gönderiler:5
Gönderildi 17/04/2013 - 02:16
the genitor become a shirsimsher(very slow and small)so easy to convert however it doesn't have the effect as the old did bcz when i use as all do the genitor vs ranged units it never works they really ignore this genitor so ranged units have no problem now if someone buy Martel or subotai and u have vils and want to get kings and he rush u , its the end u are dead but in the past we used to cover yourself with genitor
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 ['sT]thunderbird


Grup: Altın Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 30/11/2009
Gönderiler:686
Gönderildi 17/04/2013 - 08:57
  • bonus if the person next to you chickens out in the first 10 minutes (one king bonus)
    this isnt neccessary at all..if someone quits, the players next to them get advantage at the middle as there are no towers next to them.
  • Give the Mayans and brits the 4 respawnable regular paladins from 2011 immediately at the start to balance out against infantry civs (suggested by LDK MCB)
    giving the users the option to choose at the beginning itself would be a good idea(like 2011)...idk how khan defender would work out in this scenario..maybe just start powering it up after the usual 15 mins or give everyone a khan defender like in 2012.
  • Give a one king bonus to p2 and p5 in 6 player games, p2 in 5 player games, p2 in 7 player games (p2/p5 get screwed over too often in games with less than 8 players)
    this only happens if players dont man their towers at all...this would be too much of spoon feeding kings to the players..and it only happens when p1 and p3 are complete noobs and wouldn't attack p7 and p4 at all
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 ['sT]thunderbird


Grup: Altın Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 30/11/2009
Gönderiler:686
Gönderildi 17/04/2013 - 08:59
RCB keeps getting worse.
says a player who never plays the map...how about you explain it in a little over one line?
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 ComBoT


Grup: Standart Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 21/02/2013
Gönderiler:161
Gönderildi 17/04/2013 - 10:10
says a player who never plays the map...how about you explain it in a little over one line?
+1
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


Grup: Standart Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 19/04/2012
Gönderiler:607
Gönderildi 17/04/2013 - 15:38
  • bonus if the person next to you chickens out in the first 10 minutes (one king bonus)
    this isnt neccessary at all..if someone quits, the players next to them get advantage at the middle as there are no towers next to them.
  • Give the Mayans and brits the 4 respawnable regular paladins from 2011 immediately at the start to balance out against infantry civs (suggested by LDK MCB)
    giving the users the option to choose at the beginning itself would be a good idea(like 2011)...idk how khan defender would work out in this scenario..maybe just start powering it up after the usual 15 mins or give everyone a khan defender like in 2012.
  • Give a one king bonus to p2 and p5 in 6 player games, p2 in 5 player games, p2 in 7 player games (p2/p5 get screwed over too often in games with less than 8 players)
    this only happens if players dont man their towers at all...this would be too much of spoon feeding kings to the players..and it only happens when p1 and p3 are complete noobs and wouldn't attack p7 and p4 at all

I guess only select civs are at a disadvantage for the first one so it wouldn't really be fair.

In a 6 player game p1 has no choice but to get p2 towers and p2's towers are easy to select from p3 base. Just watch in any game with 6 this will happen. I kinda see the point about 7. I may just do it for 6 players. I guess with the better autobalance it may not be as big of an issue.

If I have it so you can select from paladins/archers of the eyes at the beginning for every civ the other units will lose their purpose there. In a different thread quite a few people were against the defender too which is why I made it selectable so not everyone would get it. I could maybe make it so everyone gets the gate upgrade immediately at the beginning and leave it as is, but I'm not sure if that'd totally solve it. The main issue is if an infantry civ is next to you all they have to do is have their towers attack your gate in the beginning, coupled with going imperial and buying a castle or two and you're pretty much gg'ed at the cross there. Some ****ty paladins would probably result in the same outcome truthfully but at least it'd be slightly delayed... idk. What do other people think about this?
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 Fu_ming


Grup: Standart Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 03/02/2013
Gönderiler:6
Gönderildi 17/04/2013 - 17:09
what about a notice for what anyone buys from spawn store even if its like robins for instance. also maybe make it so units heal faster when garrisoned.. if you have like a khan at low hp it takes ages to heal back up :S
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


Grup: Standart Üyelik
Katılım Tarihi: 19/04/2012
Gönderiler:607
Gönderildi 17/04/2013 - 17:17
Fu_ming wrote:
what about a notice for what anyone buys from spawn store even if its like robins for instance. also maybe make it so units heal faster when garrisoned.. if you have like a khan at low hp it takes ages to heal back up :S

I don't know if you can adjust garrison heal rates. I tried to get monk heal rates to work like 2 or so months ago for this last update but couldn't. I'm hoping I still can for v4. I'm going to add in messages for when someone gets harald or khan since those are important. Nothing else though. It's why spies are important on the super store.


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